S2E8 - Ciara Conran: Leading with Courage and Curriculum
What if leadership in early childhood wasn’t about having the answers, but about cultivating the courage to ask better questions—of children, educators, and ourselves?
In a sector where change can feel slow, how might your voice, your email, or your conversation be the catalyst for systemic transformation?
📘 Episode Summary
In this inspiring episode of Leading the Early Years for the Future, host Amie Fabry sits down with Ciara Conran, a passionate educational leader and advocate for the early childhood sector. Together, they explore Ciara’s journey from educator to curriculum leader across five services, delving into her commitment to play-based and inquiry-led learning. Ciara shares how her lived experience as a mother of three and a lifelong learner shapes her leadership, and how her courageous advocacy is helping influence change at both the service and systemic levels. With warmth and conviction, Ciara unpacks the power of voice, the importance of listening, and the urgency of acting on behalf of children, educators, and the future of early learning.
About Ciara Conran
Ciara Conran is a dynamic early childhood education leader who brings over a decade of experience to her role as a curriculum and pedagogy leader across five early learning centres. Originally from Ireland, Ciara studied Education and Training at Dublin City University before immigrating to Australia in 2014, just as the Early Years Learning Framework (EYLF) was gaining traction nationally.
Her practice is grounded in a belief in the autonomy and capability of young children, and she champions play- and inquiry-based learning. Ciara is also a relentless advocate for sector reform—speaking at national forums, engaging directly with government ministers, and working alongside policymakers to address issues such as workforce qualifications and immigration pathways for educators.
Known for her deep sense of justice, tireless energy, and commitment to elevating others, Ciara is driven by one clear purpose: ensuring all children have access to empowered educators and meaningful early learning experiences. She continues to study, mentor, and lead with an unwavering belief in the collective capacity of the sector to drive real change.
Connect & Resources
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Stay Connected with Dr Amie Fabry:
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[Transcript]
Amie Fabry (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome back to Leading the Early Years for the Future. I am your host, Amy Fabry, and today I have the joy of speaking with Kiara Conran, who is an early childhood educator and leader and an advocate for all children and the early childhood education and care sector. Thank you so much for the work that you do, Kiara, and thank you for joining me today.
Ciara Conran (00:25)
Thank for having me, Amy. It's always great to come on and talk with like-minded people within the sector who share that vision for the future of the early years within Australia and worldwide.
Amie Fabry (00:36)
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more, which is, you know, really why I started this podcast so that it was another channel to have more conversations about what matters but also about leadership. And so I'm really keen to hear your journey as a leader in the sector. But the very first question I always ask guests is, can you share something about yourself, perhaps a hidden talent, something that even just lights you up and brings you joy?
that might sit outside of your professional role.
Ciara Conran (01:10)
Yeah, sure. Well, it might not sit too far outside, but I'm a mum of three and I have two year old twins who definitely, definitely, definitely spark joy and you know, they have a lot of energy. I guess being that mum of three in line with the early childhood sector, really, really
resignates with the work that I do. It also brings me so much joy outside that space as well. know, spending time with my three children, watching them grow. And I also, which is, you know, very cliche as well, I guess. But I love to learn in outside my profession. So I stay within the realm of early childhood sector, but I really love researching, investigating, reading. I think knowledge is power. So that is something that I like to do in my downtime to help me relax. And I just think, you know, some people are driven by
you know money, status, things like that. I'm really driven by knowledge and I think knowledge is power and it's also a key to many many opportunities so that's something that I really like to do in my downtime. No hidden talents that I've found yet anyway. There's time yet though.
Amie Fabry (02:09)
Beautiful.
Well, know, being a lifelong learner,
think is a talent. You know, having that dedication and commitment to continuing your own learning is actually really an amazing skill to have. And yeah, resonates with me. Plus having children, I mean, what greater joy is there than actually spending time with children?
Ciara Conran (02:31)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
I think, yeah, and I think, you know, working in the early learning space and, you know, being a mum of three, it just kind of has that full circle moment of, know, I'm doing this as my profession, but I'm also doing it to help my children to, you know, prepare them for the world that they that they will enter into as well. So.
Amie Fabry (02:48)
Yeah. And I know
myself once I had children, know, wearing a different hat, you know, from being an educator, I suddenly had so, you know, such a different lens on children and their development, but even from because I could put myself in the shoes of a parent. So, you know, it only strengthens your, your understanding, I guess, and your skill set, right? So tell us Kara about the work you do.
Ciara Conran (02:56)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I do think that is important.
So I am an education leader. I run the curriculum across five centers. So it's something that I'm really passionate about. Pedagogy, curriculum, opportunities for children. I'm really passionate about play-based, inquiry-based learning. Really passionate about children having autonomy over their curriculum, over their own learning. Yes, we can teach and to guide, but I really focus on child direct learning and let them be the leaders within their own space. I think there's a lot of time and there will be a lot of time for them to see.
in environments where they're going to be told A, B and C and you need to learn this, this and this. So the early childhood space is really that fantastic, I suppose, environment to let them lead and let them be the leaders of their own learning and let them guide you, engage in that play-based learning, choir-based learning and really let them flourish. As I said, they're going to be in an environment soon enough where they're not really going to have choice over the curriculum. And I think that's the...
you know, the joy of the EYLEF is so much, I suppose, flexibility of how we teach children. So, yeah, that's generally where the space I'm in. So focusing on pedagogy, philosophy, curriculum, ensuring children have access to high learning outcomes and also empowering educators and teachers as well to provide that for children. So, you know, if you look at the younger years, you know, not restricting children to any form of learning based on their age.
and we worked with the Trast Institute a lot and they kind of said something that resonated with me, you you don't do letter of the week because it would take X amount of weeks to get back to the start. You expose children to every letter every day because it's something that they are going to be exposed to. So why not do it from, you know, the early years, the very early years? And that resonated with me a lot as well, because I think sometimes we underestimate children and what they can learn. But, you know, looking at them as capable learners really opens up
doors for them to really, you know, take in everything and give them the high level of exposure.
Amie Fabry (05:20)
led you to work in the early years.
Ciara Conran (05:23)
So I studied in Dublin City University in Ireland originally and I studied education and training and then I worked in the social care space in Ireland before I immigrated over here. And I've just always had a love of children. I'm the oldest of five, so my four siblings, two sisters, brothers.
And I've always kind of been in that role, mother role, leader role, caring role, nurturing role. But it wasn't until I moved to Australia where I just saw this shift in from where I worked before to here and the strong emphasis on early childhood. I came to 2014, so the EYLF was just being rolled out in 2012. It was all new, it was fresh. There was new legislation, there was new curriculum. And I was also able to get...
those opportunities to step into those leadership roles as an education leader. And then as I became more in tune with the curriculum, just, that's when my love for it really kind of snowballed, guess. I continued to study my grad dip in teaching. I'm doing my master's at the moment. And I just, when you look at the child's brain and how much it forms in those early years, I just found it really fascinating. So the more I was in the space, the more interested I guess I got in the...
neurological side, the biology of every kind of aspect of the early years, and then also kind of really recognizing the impact we can have on children. know, children are going into a new generation at the moment and we have the power to kind of change our trajectory of what the world can look like for children. So when I realized that the impact and the influence we have can be colossal for these children, I just really thought this is something I really have to immerse myself into.
with the children, with educators and supporting the sector as a whole.
Amie Fabry (07:14)
Can you tell me about your journey from educator into the educational leader role?
Ciara Conran (07:22)
Yeah, so that would have been a long time ago now. I was working in a service and I was in the kidney room and I just had a really strong interest in the curriculum. I used to run the curriculum, I used to design the curriculum and I was actually approached by a fellow educator that was in a leadership role and said, oh, you should be the education leader. And I didn't know what that was at the time. As I said, it was 2014, it was all quite new. Nobody kind of really knew what it was. So I did that.
for a while then I moved into a different position back into the kindy room again because the older age group of the 0 5 would be where I've had most of my experience. And then it really kicked off then after 2014 onwards the emphasis on the education leader. So I was very lucky then to be offered a position in my new job that I've been well it was new then I'm there nearly 10 years now but to be able to
really take that education leader role seriously and to support educators but also learn with educators as well. As I said it was very early on 2014-2015 when everything was quite fresh so all these things were emerging as know education leaders were learning after a couple of years so keeping up to date with all that kind of legislation, regulation, new information, peers, pedagogues so learning with the educators was really important to me as well.
and was really beneficial for my role as an education leader because I was learning with the educators that I was supporting. So I've been in an education leader role for almost 10 years now. And I mean, it's changed drastically between then and now. Obviously, the more you know, the more you know, which is fantastic. So, yeah, that's kind of my journey from educator to early child.
education leader and I did my teaching in the middle of that as well, so early childhood teacher. So it's been a journey and I'm still studying as well which would go back to the lifelong learning interests that I have because I do think that everything is changing very fast as not just in the early childhood space but in the world itself and we need to keep up to date just for the best interests of the children.
Amie Fabry (09:24)
Yeah.
It is so true. You know, and we were having a bit of a chat before we hit record just about some of the big changes that are happening sort of at a system level in terms of early childhood. But you're so right, even when we think about childhood and we think about society, like all of our lives are constantly evolving and changing. They don't look the same as they did five years ago or 10 years ago. And for our children, you know, who
Ciara Conran (09:45)
Mmm. Yeah.
Mmm.
Amie Fabry (10:02)
who are coming into the world and their first five or even eight years of life, which we know is so critical, are just looking more and more different as the years go on and so different to our own childhoods, right? There is so much for us to be thinking about. So your role as an educational leader is supporting the educators across five services, you said, with pedagogy and curriculum, yeah.
Ciara Conran (10:09)
Mm.
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, class five serves, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And it's something I'm really passionate about. you know, I obviously see it as a career and profession, but it really excites me, you know, and it really excites me looking at the curriculum, evolving the curriculum, reflecting on the curriculum, and also empowering educators, new educators that come in, educators have been in sector for a long time, you know, engaging in those robust debates of, know, hey, you've done this.
how could we do this or could we do it this way? And, you know, I always say a good leader always, you know, doesn't have to know, not everybody has to agree with them. But I always say if you can kind of engage in a debate back and forward and I can walk off and say, you know, they know their reason why it may not be, it may not align with my pedagogy, but that's theirs. And I'm respectful of that because they know their reason why. So I think that's a big, I think that's a big factor as well in leadership as well that, know,
Yes, you can need and you can have your own pedagogy and philosophy, but not everybody is going to align with yours. But I think if they know the reason why and I just love supporting educators to find their reason why, as in, know, I'm doing this because X, Y and Z, I may not think that that that will be part of my pedagogy, but I have to respect that that educate that educator is part of theirs. So, yeah, I'm continuously learning as a leader and continuously working with educators who
push those boundaries as well and don't just say, know, yep, this is what I'm doing or you've said this so, here it is, you know, wrapped up in a shiny bow, that they challenge me as well. So I think that's fantastic.
Amie Fabry (12:03)
That's so good. So good. You know, I love there's a saying, you know, about every time you interact with someone that you are somehow changed. And I think, you know, I'm reflecting on you talking about your role as a leader and that you might not necessarily be seeking to change one of your colleagues, but actually to understand them or help them to really engage with why they do what they do. And so that is having an impact on them. They might not change their practice, but you're actually
Ciara Conran (12:12)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (12:33)
It sounds like you're helping them to really connect with their own values and beliefs and purpose and knowledge for why they do what they do. And that is really powerful.
Ciara Conran (12:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, and one example of that was one of part of my pedagogy and philosophy. I love that children make their own interpretation of their creative art experiences. And I worked with a teacher who had these. was like a colouring in kind of sheet. I said, you know, I said, ⁓ you know, could we look at doing something a bit more, you know, that they can focus on this? And she said, well, this is actually something that they brought from home. And I've done research to show that this can
and incorporate no relaxation, conversation, engagement. And so she really kind of said, yeah, no, I understand your pedagogy. I'm doing this. This is my reason why. And then I also tuned into Samantha Slattery when they were talking about it before and they were like, that could be the only thing that engages that child in that day. And just because it doesn't align with your philosophy or pedagogy, that does not mean that the child is not going to get X, Y and Z from it. So
really having those eye-opening conversations based on research as well and based on those conversations and knowing the child as well and what would help them within that environment. So light bulb moments like that for me really solidify my role because it's like, yeah, you are correct. two things can be correct at one time. you know what mean? Whatever happens to say, this is A and this is B and you have to do this or you have to do that. So.
Yeah, I just love those kind of really light bulb conversations where I'm learning alongside educators as well.
Amie Fabry (14:16)
What a great example. I love that. You know, and I have to say, you know, when you mentioned colouring in, I first thought, where is this going to go? You know, because I probably had the same response you did. It is so interesting, right? And it just shows the power of being curious to learn from other people. Like you said, you know, there might actually be a really intentional decision that sits behind that. And in this case, you know, a really beautiful one that it's actually taking the lead from the child.
Ciara Conran (14:18)
Mmm.
Mmm. Yeah, yep.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (14:43)
Kara,
Ciara Conran (14:43)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (14:44)
tell me about the role of advocacy. What does advocacy look like and how does that fit into your role as an educational leader?
Ciara Conran (14:55)
Yeah, well, I've taken on the role of advocacy very seriously in the past couple of years and over years. And I think the reason being is because we've seen such change in the early childhood space. And I did a talk at the Curtin University World Teachers Day and the principal of Perth Modern School said about advocacy, if not you, who and if not now, when?
And that really resonated with me because sometimes we think that there's all these people out here advocating for X, Y and Z and we'll just sit back and we will wait until the results come in and then we'll celebrate the results. But that's not necessarily always the case. And I feel like the fact that, you know, the early childhood space is so, you know, dominant at the moment, we have such an opportunity to raise our voices and raise our concerns and really get them out to the, you know, the space where we can make a change.
And you know, with that, reached out to the Minister, Sabine Wynton. She came to the service to discuss things that we kind of felt were not working in the sector. And we reached out and met with a SEPWA and Michael Petrie, Carolyn Cousin and Rhonda Livingstone as well. had the pleasure to have a conversation with. So I with all these like minded people who are in the space of change in legislation and looking at regulations really kind of bring those.
brings those conversations to the forefront that you may think people haven't, but they may not be. You know, when we have conversations with people, they're actually kind of quite shocked to say, well, I didn't know that, you know. One would be the qualifications, which I won't get into too much, but obviously you have to have your Cert III diploma or working towards a nationally recognized qualification, which is fantastic. But we have...
other professionals that want to get into the early years space, such as primary school teachers, and they can be recognized as anything at the moment. So that's not to say that they don't have a wealth of knowledge that they can contribute to the early childhood space. But it's something that we brought to a sequel as well for conversation, which they've changed in the OSH space. So I don't think it is too far because they've recognized that different qualifications can actually benefit the children. While it is in the OSH space, I don't know how far it will be from the early years space, but it's something that
Obviously we were quite passionate about because we saw these very like-minded, educated educators and teachers wanted to be in the earlier space and obviously legally can't be for x amount of time. The same thing was with the visas as well. So we worked closely with a migration agent who supports us immensely because we had loads of educators that over COVID had to, you know, they support us during COVID and then afterwards didn't have a visa.
even though we were in such a dire space with the early childhood sector in terms of staffing. So we really advocate with our visa agent and met with the Department of Immigration and Department of Training and Workforce Development and our government body then as well to lobby these kind of interests to kind of fast track and get them onto the table. And then those conversations actually made it to Canberra at that time, which was fantastic. Yeah, it was fantastic. And, you know, we have such a network of support.
Amie Fabry (17:56)
Well.
Ciara Conran (18:01)
of people around us, luckily. But that's all just from advocacy. That's just from starting those conversations. That's just from sending those emails. So I would go back to the, know, if not you, who, and if not now, when. If you find something in the space that you feel like you're really passionate about and you want to advocate for, I would just say, you know, the time is actually now. People are talking. We have a wealth of information. We have so much access to information. Even, you know, the people that you might think...
are accessible, you know, we had an issue and I emailed the Premier and I'm thinking, you know, he'll never get back. But he did get back and he, you know, directed me on to somebody else. Like the emails will be answered, you know, and if they're not, just send them again, you know, because, know, someone will get back to you. And, you know, because it's the time is now because as he said, if not now, when, you know.
Amie Fabry (18:42)
Hmm.
Yeah, that's such a good point. And I love that if they don't get back to you, just send them again. It's so good. But I have to say, you kind of make this sound easy, you know, just to reach out and yeah, we reach out to the minister and she comes to visit. And you look, certainly people can email, make calls and inquiries. But I'm curious to know, have you always been this courageous? You know, like, is it just
Ciara Conran (19:00)
Hey, I sent an email. Yeah, it's a reminder.
Yes.
Amie Fabry (19:24)
part of who you are to reach out and speak up? Or is it something that you had to build a skill set, know, or some bravery to actually do this?
Ciara Conran (19:35)
I think anyone who knows me will agree that I'm quite outspoken. I'm quite a bit of a social justice warrior. I don't like when things aren't equitable or equal or things like that. Whether that be for children, families, educators, teachers within the space we're in. And I've always been kind of very vocal about that and opinionated, which is...
Amie Fabry (19:39)
Mm-hmm.
Ciara Conran (19:58)
sometimes got me trouble, but sometimes that's really worked for my benefit. yes, I always have been quite outspoken in the things I'm very passionate about, but that comes from a positive place of wanting to make that change and looking at the injustices in the world, I guess, and the inequalities and saying, hey, well, if I can't speak up for someone who can't speak for themselves, then who will? And then that goes back for children as well. We're dealing with a zero to five space.
Children can't advocate for themselves. So, you know, we have to be their voice when things like this happen, you know, even with the qualifications, you know, at the end of the day, we're doing this so children have access to high levels of learning. So, yes, we want to support educators getting that space. We also want children to have access to educated, you know, reflective thinkers, critical thinkers, people who are engaged in that research and inquiry and bringing that into the earlier space. So.
I think whatever I'm advocating for, whether it be the visas, qualifications, really just come back to having, allowing the children to have that access. That's kind of the main focus of giving the children the best kind of start and the best options for being in that space. And that's not just for in the work that I'm in, but I think that should be worldwide. I think children, I think we can do better for children. I think we can give them more.
And there's always ways and means how we can do that. And I think that goes back to, you know, my advocacy and what can I do to help this.
Amie Fabry (21:22)
Yeah.
I love that so much, know, just thinking what can I do? What can I do? you know, if we think about the sector broadly, there are a lot of us working in the sector in all different roles. So I love that, you know, what can I do is really
Ciara Conran (21:33)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amie Fabry (21:45)
I guess a personal kind of call to action almost, you know, that we can all speak up. you know, I guess it probably doesn't have to be reach out to the politicians, but why not, you know, be a voice for children because they don't have a voice in the arena. You know, we certainly should include their voices far more than we do, but we can advocate for children. And what's coming through really clearly as you talk about this is that you are driven by
Ciara Conran (21:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is it?
Amie Fabry (22:12)
a really clear purpose for advocating. You know, it's not about you getting your way, it's actually about the children that you're advocating for who deserve better.
Ciara Conran (22:23)
Yeah, absolutely. that's, you know, that's what it has come down to. It's not about me and what I can achieve. And, you know, everyone, you know, a lot of people say, you know, I admire your work advocacy. And I'm like, that's, you know, it's fantastic. But at the end of the day, I'm doing this for the children. First of all, in our care, but also worldwide. know, children are going into a whole new world, as you said before, completely different to what we went into.
Sometimes it's terrifying, but sometimes it's actually exciting because you can actually make that impact and say, okay, well, I've done this research. I know this is what's happening and I can stop it right now by doing X, Y and Z. And really kind of immersing everybody into that frame of mind of like, what can we do? How can we do this? How can we make the world a better place? Because at the end of the day, the children that are in our care and that we're educating, they're the future leaders. They're the future policymakers. They're the future premiers. They're the future politicians.
We want to make sure that when they're awesome, know, educate us that they're left with skills that will make the world a better place.
Amie Fabry (23:23)
So true, so true. Have you faced any challenges in your advocacy work?
Ciara Conran (23:24)
Cool.
I guess, you know, the emails, no, I guess, I guess, I guess, no, I've actually been really lucky. Everyone that I've emailed has responded to me, actually. People don't actually believe that. And I always say go to the top. So, you know, I had an issue with X, Y, and Z. So I emailed the Premier's office and then he filtered me down to X, and Z. But I always say, you know, go to the top. You might get filtered down, but at least you were there. I think the main kind of...
roadblock or challenges I find is the time it takes for legislation to come in. I worked with CEQA about the qualification things as in teams and meetings, but I find that it's a very slow process and everything is long. And I guess that's because like the longevity of research and things don't happen overnight, but I find that challenging. I find that changes can happen.
and they're not happening quick enough and I find that the children that are in my care and who I educate are going to age out before any change is implemented and then we're back to a new cohort of children which is absolutely fine but I find the challenges really on the legislation side in terms of how long it takes to one get feedback, get an answer, get something on the table and for any kind of change to be implemented and I feel like
we're shouting and we're shouting and we're shouting and then, you know, like tiny little changes have been implemented, but I don't think it's enough. And that's kind of frustrating. And I think that would, if for people in the advocacy space, that could kind of put them off because they're not seeing results. But I obviously have to look at it long-term and, you know, keep going with it because, you know, if you give up now, you don't know if anybody's going to take up your role and kind of continue with it or it will just be left. So really looking...
Amie Fabry (25:09)
Yeah.
Ciara Conran (25:20)
longevity of keeping this advocacy in place to make sure we actually do get results for children.
Amie Fabry (25:27)
Mmm, it's such a good point. It is slow, isn't it? And, and frustrating, know, particularly like you said, when you are working alongside these children, and you can see that the changes they need are not going to come quick enough. Really frustrating. I love that you're talking about looking at kind of the, the end goal and keep going. But do you have any strategies or
Ciara Conran (25:30)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Amie Fabry (25:50)
what helps you to keep going? You know, if time is sometimes a challenge, how long it takes, but you you're a busy person, you're an educator and a leader and how do you navigate those challenges? How do you actually just keep going? I mean, do you just have an enormous amount of energy? Like, I'm really keen to know how you keep going.
Ciara Conran (26:13)
I work
in an extremely supportive environment so I have full autonomy on what I want to achieve for centre-based but also on a bigger scale so I'm very supportive in that aspect which is really great because sometimes you come up against educators and teachers who don't have that autonomy, can't really express their opinion and I can't really make that change so I really do have a massive amount of support.
But I'm also surrounded by like-minded people within the sector. I really connect with people that are on the same page having those conversations. And I think having those conversations and keeping in that space really does kind of keep making you thinking because if you kind of just left it and I'm doing this and this might work and you're not connecting with anyone, it might just be like, well, it's not going to work out because X, Y, and Z.
When you speak to other people and engage other people, you kind of get that motivation to keep going because you're building up, one, your voice and two, sharing ideas as well with each other. you know, I've done this or I've done that. And like I said, I spoke at the World Teachers Day and one of the educators reached out to me afterwards and sent me an email that was got to do with students and the early childhood space and, know, what they want to do for change. And they said, you know, you have a really
powerful voice we'd love for you to kind of work with us because we don't have that voice. And I mean, even just getting emails like that to help other people that can't help themselves to make that change in the early childhood space really does continue to motivate me to keep going because at every corner there seems to be a kind of another roadblock of we got here and then you get here and then there's an issue here and then we get here and then it's there. I mean, for one, there's just so much more work to do, I think that, you know,
We have to keep going and to surround myself with like-minded people and having those conversations and really engaging with the sector from kind of all different levels from you know, the early years, studying students, Unis, TAFEs, every kind of aspect to make it come kind of full circle.
Amie Fabry (28:21)
Amazing. I love that you're talking about having a network of like-minded people to motivate you, inspire you, but learn from too, right? We only come up with our own ideas through our own lens, but there is actually lots we can learn from other people who are also advocating in the space. What works for them doesn't work. Finding new opportunities and new ideas and ways to advocate.
Ciara Conran (28:28)
Mm.
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (28:47)
is so important and you know also helps with your own inspiration and motivation to keep going. What do you think your what would be your greatest learnings about leadership and advocacy?
Ciara Conran (28:51)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think my greatest learnings about leadership is not everybody's going to agree with you and that's okay. And you need to take it as a learning tool to learn with somebody else and look at things from their point of view. I think that's been a big, big thing in my journey, as I've mentioned before, is learning with people, looking at other people's perspective and growing with your team. you know, not telling them this is what we're doing and this is why, suggesting that this is what we could do. What are your thoughts? Do you think we can do this a bit better? What do you think? How does
align with your pedagogy and philosophy. And I think about the advocacy as well, that's been a really important space as well because it's really evolved over time, what we were advocating for a couple of years ago.
has now changed to something else. So it really does kind of keep you on your toes because as I said, it's kind of always something to do. But again, power and numbers in terms of advocacy and I've met with so many great people, know, like yourself. And if I wasn't in that space, I wouldn't be connected to these people. I wouldn't learn from these people. I wouldn't grow. And I think that makes me a better leader as well because the more my network expands, the more knowledge I get, the more kind of perspective I get that I can bring it back to my team then and implement that.
Amie Fabry (29:50)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Amazing. It's so true, right? So true. you know, I'm just reflecting what you said about not everyone's going to agree with you. You know, whether you're leading a team or advocating more publicly or beyond your service or your school or your context. That's actually a great reminder. You know, I'm thinking it's probably a good reminder to not take things personally, you know, if they don't get back to you or
Ciara Conran (30:25)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (30:42)
it's
Ciara Conran (30:42)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (30:43)
not a sign of failure, but maybe, you know, they just have a different priority or they don't have time or they don't see it the way you do. I think that's really great advice and, you know, growing with a network, growing with your team and looking for opportunities to keep building your own.
skill set as a leader and as an advocate is so important. And I know too, from my experience, you the more I have been brave enough to reach out to people and have conversations, you just learn so much from everybody and you learn so much about how all the, you know, the smaller pieces fit together within our sector. But really learning how other people think is really helpful to also think about
Ciara Conran (31:14)
Bye!
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (31:30)
you know, how do you communicate a message or how do you get someone to realize this is really important, right? Yeah.
Ciara Conran (31:35)
Yeah, yeah.
And I think what you said about not taking things personally is a big thing to kind of take on board with advocacy work or in any kind of work that you may be in, because that's something that I am quite good at actually. don't take things personally in the professional space. Not everybody's going to agree with me on X, Y and Z. I'm not going to agree with everybody. Have those conversations, have the debate and kind of move on. I mean, if it's not, if it's resolved and you've got to the end goal, just leave it at that. think, you know, harbouring feelings of
of things that people might find personal will be a of a roadblock for people to want to of continue because if I came up with people, to people who didn't agree or didn't like what I saying or didn't want to engage, I'm taking a person, like, what can I do better? Why isn't this working for me? You have to just keep going with your own goal, not take it personally because that's when you'll kind of just...
put your hands up and say, know, it's kind of not for me. So it's easier said than done not to take things personally, especially when in the earlier space or any space at that. But it's one thing that I would be very confident in saying that I have to just not take things personally. And I think that's fantastic advice for anybody.
Amie Fabry (32:49)
It's so true, so true. Do you have any other advice that you would give to, I guess, anyone working in the sector, particularly those who are, you know, you know in your gut, right? You know in your heart when something needs to change and, you know, whether you are looking to speak up or...
whether you're someone who's looking to, how do I create a change or how do I get to know more people and step out of my comfort zone or advocate or lead something. Do you have any advice for them?
Ciara Conran (33:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, as I go back to that quote, know, if not now, when? The time is now. As I said, we have so much access to information. We've so much networking space. There's so many ways to connect with people. If it's not face to face, it could be online, could be teams, could be group. And if you feel that you are passionate about something and you feel you don't have that voice, you can connect with somebody who can be that voice. And the more you do, the more confident you will get at it as well. I've met lots of people who are very passionate about
the sector but wouldn't necessarily have the confidence to voice or speak or network or communicate. But there will be someone who can do that for you. There will be somebody who can speak for you, who can take the things you're passionate about and bring them out to the world and get that voice out. And then that builds up their confidence as well. I would always say to somebody in the earlier space, if you are passionate enough to have an idea or you want change or you want advocacy, you want to advocate.
The time is now. There's so many resources to help you. I always say, you know, and I've said it so many times when I've reached out, when I've spoken with people, my email, I've sent them my email address. If you want me to help you, if you want me to be your voice, if you want me to connect you to X, Y and Z, I can help you get started. You know, our visions and our ideas and our advocacy mightn't be the same. But I mean, the end goal is the same in the earlier space. They want to kind of enhance that space or make it better or make a change. So I would always say
know, if you don't feel comfortable doing it, find someone who can and there's always somebody who can. I mean, and I always offer myself, say, if you need me to help you, I might be able to help you entirely, but I can be a voice, I can connect you with the resources I know and I can support you kind of on your journey then as well. And I guess having that for somebody, you know, I didn't have that, not saying that there wasn't people there, but my network was very small when I started advocating, as everything is in infancy.
Amie Fabry (35:10)
Mmm.
Ciara Conran (35:22)
But the more you're kind of in the space, the more you're in the network and the more you're advocating, you find more people, you find more advocates, you know what I mean? Like yourself, like all the kind of people that I've met within, you know, not just the PRWA region, but nationwide that they're out there and they're shouting out. So the more you kind of get into that space, the more you'll find people are out there doing that that might make it easier for you to kind of either jump on board or, you know, ask for that help or make that suggestion or send that email.
Amie Fabry (35:51)
Such good advice. You know, and again, if I reflect on my own experience, I was a little terrified, to be honest, to reach out to people and networking was not my skill set at all. You know, and I'm actually quite an introverted person. So putting myself out there was really hard, but my experience was exactly as you described. The more you are brave enough to just have a conversation, to connect with someone, share an idea or a thought you have.
Ciara Conran (36:00)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (36:19)
It does open up this whole world of like-minded people and someone will put you in touch with someone else or someone else will connect you to an organization where you can get some mentoring or some support. And I really do think we are stronger together, right? So we don't have to be the lone ranger trying to create any kind of change, but actually the more we can find our people, find people who think similarly and are passionate and...
Ciara Conran (36:21)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (36:49)
willing to either help support or speak up. Together we will make great changes and difference for our young children.
Ciara Conran (36:57)
Yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah,
I think the time is now. And as I continuously said, we have so much access to information, we've access to each other, we've networking that we've never had before. And I mean, as you said, when you first kind of step into that space and the networking and while I'm quite no outspoken person, I never was in the realm of networking or reaching out or how about this, how about that? You know, with time comes confidence. So I mean, that's what I would say is just get yourself out there.
Amie Fabry (37:26)
So true, so true. Practice makes progress, right? The more we do something, you know, the more comfortable it gets and your skill set builds and it does get easier. That is such wonderful advice, Kiera. It's been such a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey, your advocacy and your learning about leadership.
Ciara Conran (37:30)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you for having me and you know, as only kind of chat with.
could go on and on and on. you know, as I say, as I say, it's always great to surround yourself with like-minded people within the space. So you can kind of bounce off each other and have those, I suppose, conversations that will lead to, you know, a few light bulb moments of, know, kind of what's next, what can we do? And, you know, leaving this, you know, podcast, you know, feeling that more motivated because I've been able to have those conversations. So again, that's another piece of advice is, you know, keep talking, keep, you know, keep advocating, keep showing your passion because
Amie Fabry (37:53)
Hahaha
Ciara Conran (38:21)
it will ignite that spark for you to keep going and motivate you to continue with the work that people are doing.
Amie Fabry (38:29)
It's so true. one other thought that just popped into my mind was, you know, when you have a conversation, whether you're speaking at an event or you're just having a conversation with people and raising a thought, you never know the impact that that's going to lead to, right? You just never know if you've planted a seed or really help someone to think differently, or they might come back to you and ask for more information. So it is always worth just speaking up.
Ciara Conran (38:43)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely, 100 % agree. And that's what I found within a networking space. Someone can say something, two or three words, it just ignites a thought, an idea, a passion for you to reach out, continue with that conversation, think of something that's next. And your words have impact on people. So the more we speak and the more we kind of get it out there, the more people are going to be listening and the more change, I guess, will be implemented.
Amie Fabry (39:23)
Absolutely. Well thank you again so much. Let's keep having conversations about what matters. Yeah.
Ciara Conran (39:30)
Absolutely, absolutely. think so. Thank
you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Don't say that. I'll be on every week having the chat.
Amie Fabry (39:35)
But anytime, Chiara, always a joy to talk to you.
Thank you.
